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How many times can I pierce a stopper with an 18G drawing needle before coring?

Asked 17 Jun 2024Modified 23 months agoViewed 18k times
6

I keep a written log of every draw with date, volume and syringe type.

I want a method I can write down and repeat, not a rule of thumb.

I would rather over-engineer this than discover a problem later, within reason.

Concretely, what should I do, and how would I know afterwards whether I did it right?

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askedj_wierzbicki69k14817 Jun 2024

5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
6

Accepted answer

There is no count, and 18G is why: coring is a single event, not an accumulation. A needle cores when its bevel punches a full disc of rubber instead of parting it, and that either happens on a given puncture or does not. At 18G the bore is wide enough to take a plug you can see floating, which is at least honest about itself. Technique moves the odds far more than the count does: enter at an angle, rotate the bevel, then bring it upright — that parts the septum rather than punching it. Inspect against a dark background before every draw, because the number of punctures a stopper survives is a property of that stopper and this is the only way to find it out.

For a 4 mm pen-style needle the gauge options are narrow and the choice is nearly made for you.

Flow through a needle scales with the fourth power of the internal radius under the Hagen–Poiseuille relation. Halving the radius reduces flow sixteen-fold at the same pressure, which is why a 31G needle draws so much more slowly than a 21G.

Dead space by syringe type

ConfigurationDead volumeLoss at 5 mg/mLOver 20 draws
Fixed-needle insulin syringe3–5 µL15–25 µg0.3–0.5 mg
Low-dead-space, detachable<2 µL<10 µg<0.2 mg
Standard luer-lock + 30G35–60 µL175–300 µg3.5–6 mg
Luer-lock + 21G drawing needle70–100 µL350–500 µg7–10 mg

On the detail: very fine needles are more prone to bending and to blocking with any particulate, which is a practical argument for inspecting the solution before drawing.

The Hagen–Poiseuille relation gives flow proportional to the fourth power of radius, which is the quantitative basis for every gauge recommendation here.

The caveat is that no gauge choice makes a non-sterile preparation safe, and research-use compounds are not approved for human use.

Big to draw, small to inject, never the same one twice.

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answered · acceptedstopper_core28k1272 Jul 2024
2The dead-space number surprised me until I did the multiplication across twenty draws. – plate_count_9k 8 months ago
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36

Answering this needs to know the viscosity of what is being drawn, since a viscous solution through a fine needle is slow enough to encourage bad technique.

Stopper coring — punching a disc of rubber into the solution — is a large-bore phenomenon. An 18G or 21G needle inserted straight and fast is the classic way to do it; inserting at a slight angle with the bevel up reduces the risk.

A 30G or 31G needle through a butyl stopper leaves a track that reseals, which is why fine-gauge repeated entry is tolerable and coarse-gauge repeated entry is not.

Coring risk as a function of needle gauge and insertion technique is documented in pharmacy compounding guidance.

Angle the bevel and insert gently to avoid coring the stopper.

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BU
answeredbufferline4230k1387 Sept 2024
5Worth flagging that the U-40 syringes still exist and this arithmetic does not apply to them. – bufferline42 2 months ago
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9

The short version: 21G to 23G to draw, 29G to 31G to inject, and never the same needle for both.

For injecting, 29G to 31G is the usual range and the difference in perceived discomfort between them is small. Needle length matters more than gauge for comfort at these volumes.

Typical outer diameters: 21G is about 0.82 mm, 23G about 0.64 mm, 25G about 0.51 mm, 29G about 0.34 mm and 31G about 0.26 mm. The gauge number and the diameter move in opposite directions.

Butyl rubber closures are specified for resealing after piercing up to a stated gauge, which is the basis for the fine-gauge repeated-entry practice.

Higher gauge is not automatically better; it is thinner, which has costs as well as benefits.

Length affects comfort more than gauge does at these volumes.

edited 12 Aug 2024 by bea_forsberg — corrected a unit error in the worked example

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BF
answeredbea_forsberg11k1724 Jul 2024
4This should be linked from the help pages. – Dr_Priya_Raghunathan 8 months ago
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7

The part that matters: this is a straightforward answer that people over-complicate because the numbering is counter-intuitive.

Drawing a viscous or foamy solution through a fine needle takes long enough that people rush the plunger, which causes more foaming. Using a wider drawing needle is the fix.

Needle gauge to outer diameter correspondence is standardised and published; the inverse relationship between gauge number and diameter is the reason for the counter-intuitive labelling.

Gauge numbers run backwards. Higher number, thinner needle.

edited 13 Jul 2024 by e_dziedzic — added a caveat about sampling

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ED
answerede_dziedzic51k14713 Jul 2024
7Would this be different for a peptide that foams? Mine does and I have never known why. – RP_C18 5 months ago
8I have seen exactly this failure mode twice and both times it was the diluent volume. – meniscus_film 7 months ago
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3

Answer first: use the largest bore you tolerate for drawing and the smallest for injecting, because the two operations have opposite requirements.

Fixed-needle insulin syringes are supplied in 29G to 31G and cannot be swapped for drawing, which is the trade-off against their much lower dead space.

The general principle here — that peptides adsorb and denature at air–liquid and solid–liquid interfaces — is standard formulation science, and it is why licensed presentations contain a surfactant such as polysorbate 20 or 80. A research vial does not, which is precisely why handling matters more, not less.

Flow goes as the fourth power of radius. That is why the difference feels so large.

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WO
answeredw_okoye43k13721 Jun 2024

Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.