PeptideStack
5.2kquestions
20kanswers
220users

Should I use a 25G drawing needle to draw and something finer to administer?

Asked 3 Aug 2024Modified 20 months agoViewed 70k times
38

For context, I am working with a 10 mg presentation and a 2 mL fill.

This is a procedural question rather than a theoretical one, and I would like the procedure rather than the theory.

What I have done so far is read the label documentation where it exists and the two pharmacopoeial monographs that are publicly available, which cover the licensed presentation and say nothing about a research one.

What does a defensible version of this look like in practice?

needle-gauge
needle-gauge

Gauge and length selection, the trade-off between draw time and tissue trauma, coring risk with larger-bore needles, and why a fixed-needle…

91 questions
injection-technique
injection-technique

Technique questions: angle, pinch versus flat, aspiration, injection speed, air bubbles, and the handling steps that determine whether you deliver…

96 questions
sterility
sterility

Sterility as a test result rather than an adjective. Covers what a sterility test actually measures, why "sterile filtered" on a document is close…

142 questions
shareeditfollowflag
AZ
askedahmed_zerouali15k173 Aug 2024
7Add whether the needle is fixed or detachable — the dead space differs by an order of magnitude. – lyoph_cake 2 months ago
6How many draws are you planning from the vial? That decides which diluent to use. – claudia_ferrante 23 days ago
add a comment

5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
86

Accepted answer

Yes, and 25G is the number that makes the case: the gauge scale runs backwards, so 25G is deliberately coarse and the drawing and administering jobs want opposite ends of it. Drawing wants bore — a wide needle empties a vial quickly and does not cavitate as the plunger pulls. Administering wants the opposite, because the hole it leaves is the hole the solution can leak back out of. The cost of doing both with a 25G drawing needle is paid on the stopper: every puncture with a 25G point cuts an annulus of rubber, and the coring risk is worst on the wide end. The cost of swapping is one extra connection and whatever dead space that connection holds — which is a real loss, so measure it rather than assume it is nothing.

Start with the fact that gauge numbers run backwards — a higher number is a thinner needle — which is the source of half the confusion in this tag.

A 30G or 31G needle through a butyl stopper leaves a track that reseals, which is why fine-gauge repeated entry is tolerable and coarse-gauge repeated entry is not.

Concentration and unit conversion at a glance

VialDiluentConcentration0.25 mg0.5 mg1 mg2.5 mg
5 mg1 mL5 mg/mL5 u10 u20 u50 u
5 mg2 mL2.5 mg/mL10 u20 u40 u100 u
10 mg1 mL10 mg/mL2.5 u5 u10 u25 u
10 mg2 mL5 mg/mL5 u10 u20 u50 u
10 mg3 mL3.33 mg/mL7.5 u15 u30 u75 u

Units are U-100 insulin units, where 1 unit = 0.01 mL. Divide dose by concentration for millilitres, then multiply by 100.

Mechanically, for injecting, 29G to 31G is the usual range and the difference in perceived discomfort between them is small. Needle length matters more than gauge for comfort at these volumes.

Needle gauge to outer diameter correspondence is standardised and published; the inverse relationship between gauge number and diameter is the reason for the counter-intuitive labelling.

If a solution will not draw through a 25G needle, the problem is the solution rather than the needle.

Length affects comfort more than gauge does at these volumes.

shareimprove this answerflag
RS
answered · acceptedrota_site36k2720 Oct 2024
Would this be different for a peptide that foams? Mine does and I have never known why. – meniscus_film 7 months ago
8Same experience here, different supplier. – RP_C18 6 months ago
add a comment
Sponsored

Janoshik Analytical - Independent Third-Party Testing

HPLC purity, identity confirmation and quantified content on the vial you actually hold. Reports arrive with the chromatogram attached, not just a number.

Submit a sample
Sponsored — paired listing

GL Biochem (Shanghai) Ltd. - Direct Synthesis

Founded 1998. ISO 9001 and cGMP certified, 1,500+ staff and 200+ patents. The synthesis house behind a great many of the vials that get sent out for testing - batch-specific documentation with every order.

Visit GL Biochem
32

Coring the stopper with a large-bore needle is the risk at the drawing end, and it is real.

Typical outer diameters: 21G is about 0.82 mm, 23G about 0.64 mm, 25G about 0.51 mm, 29G about 0.34 mm and 31G about 0.26 mm. The gauge number and the diameter move in opposite directions.

Drawing a viscous or foamy solution through a fine needle takes long enough that people rush the plunger, which causes more foaming. Using a wider drawing needle is the fix.

Butyl rubber closures are specified for resealing after piercing up to a stated gauge, which is the basis for the fine-gauge repeated-entry practice.

The caveat is that no gauge choice makes a non-sterile preparation safe, and research-use compounds are not approved for human use.

Flow goes as the fourth power of radius. That is why the difference feels so large.

shareimprove this answerflag
SL
answeredsian_llewellyn65k14731 Oct 2024
27

The honest answer is that injection gauge is a comfort decision and drawing gauge is a stopper-coring decision.

Flow through a needle scales with the fourth power of the internal radius under the Hagen–Poiseuille relation. Halving the radius reduces flow sixteen-fold at the same pressure, which is why a 31G needle draws so much more slowly than a 21G.

Concretely, fixed-needle insulin syringes are supplied in 29G to 31G and cannot be swapped for drawing, which is the trade-off against their much lower dead space.

Nothing here is medical advice.

Angle the bevel and insert gently to avoid coring the stopper.

edited 8 Dec 2024 by e_dziedzic — fixed an arithmetic slip in the third paragraph

shareimprove this answerflag
ED
answerede_dziedzic51k14711 Nov 2024
21

This is a straightforward answer that people over-complicate because the numbering is counter-intuitive.

Stopper coring — punching a disc of rubber into the solution — is a large-bore phenomenon. An 18G or 21G needle inserted straight and fast is the classic way to do it; inserting at a slight angle with the bevel up reduces the risk.

Coring risk as a function of needle gauge and insertion technique is documented in pharmacy compounding guidance.

Big to draw, small to inject, never the same one twice.

shareimprove this answerflag
SC
answeredstopper_core28k12722 Nov 2024
3I have added the label-the-vial suggestion to my own notes. Obvious in hindsight. – a_lindgren 7 months ago
add a comment
-2

Answering this needs to know the viscosity of what is being drawn, since a viscous solution through a fine needle is slow enough to encourage bad technique.

Very fine needles are more prone to bending and to blocking with any particulate, which is a practical argument for inspecting the solution before drawing.

Higher gauge is not automatically better; it is thinner, which has costs as well as benefits.

Gauge numbers run backwards. Higher number, thinner needle.

shareimprove this answerflag
MF
answeredmeniscus_film32k276 Aug 2024
6This should be linked from the help pages. – coldpack_88 5 months ago
5Small correction: the units in the third paragraph should be micrograms, not milligrams. – meniscus_film 3 months ago
add a comment

Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.