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Is creatinine a better monitoring choice than cystatin C on survodutide?

Asked 26 Aug 2025Modified 10 months agoViewed 16k times
18

Setup, so nobody has to ask: creatinine · cystatin C · survodutide.

I suspect the honest answer is that it depends, in which case I would like to know on what.

Assume I can obtain either option without difficulty, so availability is not the deciding factor.

What is the actual trade-off, and does it matter at the scale I am working at?

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askednkem_obiora46k3826 Aug 2025
5This is the answer I was looking for three months ago. – low_dead_space 8 months ago
4The arithmetic checks out. I ran the same numbers and got the same result. – bridget_nyathi 7 months ago
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2 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
86

Accepted answer

On the detail: the hazard ratio is the relative effect. What changes decisions is the absolute effect, and converting between them requires the event rate in the control arm, which is usually in the same table and rarely in the abstract.

ApoB and LDL-C disagree because they measure different things: LDL-C is the cholesterol mass carried in the LDL fraction, ApoB is a count of atherogenic particles. Small dense particles carry less cholesterol each, so a person with many small particles has a concordantly higher ApoB than their LDL-C suggests. When they disagree, ApoB is the better risk marker.

HbA1c is a weighted average, not a flat one: roughly half the signal comes from the most recent month. That is why a value drawn six weeks after a change already reflects most of the effect, and why a value drawn during rapid haematological turnover reflects something other than glycaemia.

SURMOUNT-OSA reported reductions in the apnoea-hypopnoea index with tirzepatide in adults with obesity and moderate-to-severe obstructive sleep apnoea, both with and without concurrent positive airway pressure therapy[1].

One qualification: a trial that demonstrates an endpoint at a given dose has demonstrated it at that dose. Extrapolating the endpoint down the dose ladder is an assumption, not a finding.

The papers are readable. Read the paper rather than the summary of the paper, especially where the summary is enthusiastic.

edited 27 Sept 2025 by s_bhattacharya — added the citation requested in comments

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answered · accepteds_bhattacharya42k3812 Sept 2025
This is the answer I was looking for three months ago. – marcus_thorbjorn 4 months ago
8The arithmetic checks out. I ran the same numbers and got the same result. – sian_llewellyn 2 months ago
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This is a question about what the trial was designed to answer, and the honest response is that it was not designed to answer this.

The rodent thyroid C-cell findings that generated the labelled warning appear to be species-specific: rodent C-cells express GLP-1 receptors at high density, human C-cells at very low density, and human calcitonin data across large trial populations has not reproduced the signal. A family history of medullary thyroid carcinoma or MEN2 is nonetheless a genuine contraindication rather than a theoretical one.

A network meta-analysis can rank agents that were never compared directly, but only under a transitivity assumption — that the trials being linked are similar enough in population, duration and endpoint definition for the indirect comparison to hold. In this field that assumption is often visibly violated, which is why indirect rankings should be read as hypotheses.

STEP 1 reported a mean weight change of approximately −14.9 per cent with semaglutide 2.4 mg versus −2.4 per cent with placebo at 68 weeks[1]; the difference between the figures quoted from this trial in different places is an estimand difference.

None of this replaces a clinician who can see the whole picture, and the whole picture is usually where the answer is.

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answeredkwn_analytical89k24823 Sept 2025
8Worth adding that the method section is where the answer usually is. – h_pergande 7 months ago
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Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

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