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What does SURMOUNT-3 actually establish about a GLP-1 receptor agonist?

Asked 23 May 2024Modified 22 months agoViewed 23k times
2

What I am working with: SURMOUNT-3 · a GLP-1 receptor agonist.

I would like help reading this properly rather than being told what conclusion to reach.

I have the full report including the method section, so I can quote specifics if that helps.

How should I read this, and where are the traps?

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askedanouk_desmet18k2823 May 2024
Does this hold at lower concentrations, or does adsorption dominate? – stopper_core 8 months ago
Worth flagging that this changed in 2025, so older answers on the site are out of date. – juliette_farnese 10 months ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
-3

Accepted answer

The hazard ratio is the relative effect. What changes decisions is the absolute effect, and converting between them requires the event rate in the control arm, which is usually in the same table and rarely in the abstract.

A fasting lipid panel drawn during rapid weight loss reads oddly for a mechanical reason: mobilised adipose tissue delivers free fatty acids to the liver, and hepatic triglyceride export rises. Triglycerides can transiently increase while the person is doing exactly the right thing. Draw the panel when weight has been stable for a few weeks if you want an interpretable number.

Concretely, hbA1c is a weighted average, not a flat one: roughly half the signal comes from the most recent month. That is why a value drawn six weeks after a change already reflects most of the effect, and why a value drawn during rapid haematological turnover reflects something other than glycaemia.

SURMOUNT-4 randomised participants after an open-label lead-in to continued tirzepatide or placebo, and the withdrawal arm regained a substantial proportion of the lost weight over the following year[1].

One qualification: a trial that demonstrates an endpoint at a given dose has demonstrated it at that dose. Extrapolating the endpoint down the dose ladder is an assumption, not a finding.

None of this replaces a clinician who can see the whole picture, and the whole picture is usually where the answer is.

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HN
answered · acceptedhalvard_ness42k3831 Jul 2024
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This is a question about what the trial was designed to answer, and the honest response is that it was not designed to answer this.

Absolute risk reduction, worked: if the control-arm event rate is 8.0 per cent over the follow-up period and the hazard ratio is 0.80, the treated rate is approximately 6.4 per cent, the absolute risk reduction is 1.6 percentage points, and the number needed to treat is 1 ÷ 0.016 ≈ 63 over that period. A 20 per cent relative reduction and a number needed to treat of 63 are the same finding stated two ways, and only one of them sounds impressive.

More usefully, creatinine is a muscle-derived metabolite, so a substantial loss of lean mass lowers serum creatinine and mathematically raises estimated GFR without anything happening to the kidney. If you have lost twenty kilograms, your creatinine-based eGFR is flattering you. Cystatin C is not muscle-dependent and is the measure to use when the two disagree.

The papers are readable. Read the paper rather than the summary of the paper, especially where the summary is enthusiastic.

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TG
answeredtandem_gradient85k24811 Aug 2024
20

A single laboratory value is a point on a noisy curve. What you want is a trend across at least three draws under comparable conditions, and "comparable" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

Liver enzymes are a poor surrogate for hepatic histology in both directions: substantial steatohepatitis with normal transaminases is common, and modest enzyme elevation with minimal fibrosis is common. If the question is fibrosis, the answer comes from a non-invasive score such as FIB-4 or a stiffness measurement, not from ALT.

Estimated average glucose from HbA1c: eAG in mg/dL = 28.7 × A1c − 46.7, or in mmol/L, 1.59 × A1c − 2.59. An A1c of 6.5 per cent is therefore about 140 mg/dL or 7.8 mmol/L. The relationship is a population regression, so an individual can sit well off the line.

SURMOUNT-1 reported mean weight reductions of approximately 15, 19 and 21 per cent at tirzepatide 5, 10 and 15 mg respectively at 72 weeks[1].

Convert everything to an absolute effect before you compare two interventions. Relative effects are not comparable across different baseline risks.

edited 16 Sept 2024 by Dr_Bram_Verhoeven — added a caveat about sampling

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DV
answeredDr_Bram_Verhoeven85k24822 Aug 2024
8Small correction: the units in the third paragraph should be micrograms, not milligrams. – day_seven_trough 35 days ago
Do you have a reference for the last claim? Not disputing it, just want to read it. – tabular_nums 3 months ago
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15

Concretely, start with the population. The inclusion criteria of the trial determine what its result can be extrapolated to, and the extrapolation people want is usually to a population the trial excluded.

The early fall in estimated glomerular filtration rate on treatment is haemodynamic rather than structural. Reduced intraglomerular pressure lowers the filtration rate acutely and preserves the glomerulus chronically — the same pattern seen with renin-angiotensin blockade and with SGLT2 inhibition. A dip of a few millilitres per minute in the first weeks, followed by a shallower long-term slope, is the desired trajectory, not a warning sign.

The caveat is the population. Trial participants were screened, monitored and supported; the effect size in an unmonitored setting is not the trial effect size, and it is not obvious in which direction the difference runs.

Read the confidence interval, read the estimand, and compute the absolute effect yourself. It takes two minutes and it changes how the result feels.

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NK
answerednils_karlberg13k172 Sept 2024
8Good answer, but the confidence interval in the cited trial is wider than implied. – sian_llewellyn 3 months ago
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10

On the detail: the confidence interval is the informative part. A point estimate with an interval spanning no effect is a different object from the same point estimate with a tight interval, and the abstract presents them identically.

A network meta-analysis can rank agents that were never compared directly, but only under a transitivity assumption — that the trials being linked are similar enough in population, duration and endpoint definition for the indirect comparison to hold. In this field that assumption is often visibly violated, which is why indirect rankings should be read as hypotheses.

SURMOUNT-OSA reported reductions in the apnoea-hypopnoea index with tirzepatide in adults with obesity and moderate-to-severe obstructive sleep apnoea, both with and without concurrent positive airway pressure therapy[1].

I would resist reading a subgroup finding as a result. Subgroups in these trials were not powered, and a striking subgroup in a large trial is the expected consequence of multiplicity.

If the trend across three draws is flat, the difference between draws one and two was noise. Most of what people react to is noise.

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EH
answeredeighty_six_hours16k2713 Sept 2024
7Have you seen anything published on this, or is it inference from the mechanism? – assay_blank 4 months ago
8Useful. I have added the accept threshold suggestion to my own notes. – sian_llewellyn 6 months ago
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Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.