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Is a 31G needle the right choice for drawing retatrutide at 5 mg/mL?

Asked 21 Jul 2024Modified 21 months agoViewed 27k times
14

Details up front: a 31G needle · retatrutide · 5 mg/mL.

I want to know what the trade-off actually is rather than which option is fashionable.

I would rather have a defensible reason than a marginal improvement.

Which axes does this decision turn on?

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EM
askedeoin_mcgarry18k3821 Jul 2024
7What syringe are you using? The answer is different for a 0.3 mL barrel and a 1 mL one. – Dr_Rosalind_Achebe 5 months ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
57

Accepted answer

At 5 mg/mL a 1 mg dose is 0.2 mL — 20 units on a U-100 barrel — and no needle gauge changes that number. Gauge changes three other things: how long the draw takes, how much stays behind in the hub, and how much rubber you core out of the stopper. On the 31G scale a larger number is a finer needle, so a 31G needle is fine enough that a viscous solution draws slowly and a hurried draw pulls bubbles. If you are drawing 20 units at a time, the dead space matters more than the bore: a fixed-needle barrel loses microlitres, a luer hub loses tens of them, and at 5 mg/mL each microlitre is 5 µg.

The honest answer is that injection gauge is a comfort decision and drawing gauge is a stopper-coring decision.

Stopper coring — punching a disc of rubber into the solution — is a large-bore phenomenon. An 18G or 21G needle inserted straight and fast is the classic way to do it; inserting at a slight angle with the bevel up reduces the risk.

The relevant detail is that for injecting, 29G to 31G is the usual range and the difference in perceived discomfort between them is small. Needle length matters more than gauge for comfort at these volumes.

The Hagen–Poiseuille relation gives flow proportional to the fourth power of radius, which is the quantitative basis for every gauge recommendation here.

The caveat is that no gauge choice makes a non-sterile preparation safe, and research-use compounds are not approved for human use.

Big to draw, small to inject, never the same one twice.

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TQ
answered · acceptedtriple_agonist_q57k3830 Jul 2024
Small correction: the units in the third paragraph should be micrograms, not milligrams. – rhian_prydderch 8 months ago
2The arithmetic checks out. I ran the same numbers and got the same result. – Dr_Nadia_Farsi 3 days ago
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48

Start with the fact that gauge numbers run backwards — a higher number is a thinner needle — which is the source of half the confusion in this tag.

Flow through a needle scales with the fourth power of the internal radius under the Hagen–Poiseuille relation. Halving the radius reduces flow sixteen-fold at the same pressure, which is why a 31G needle draws so much more slowly than a 21G.

Typical outer diameters: 21G is about 0.82 mm, 23G about 0.64 mm, 25G about 0.51 mm, 29G about 0.34 mm and 31G about 0.26 mm. The gauge number and the diameter move in opposite directions.

If a solution will not draw through a 25G needle, the problem is the solution rather than the needle.

Flow goes as the fourth power of radius. That is why the difference feels so large.

edited 7 Sept 2024 by gunnar_isaksen — clarified the distinction between purity and content

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GI
answeredgunnar_isaksen14k1710 Aug 2024
5Would this be different for a peptide that foams? Mine does and I have never known why. – Dr_Hanne_Solberg 3 months ago
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26

The short version: 21G to 23G to draw, 29G to 31G to inject, and never the same needle for both.

Fixed-needle insulin syringes are supplied in 29G to 31G and cannot be swapped for drawing, which is the trade-off against their much lower dead space.

On the detail: very fine needles are more prone to bending and to blocking with any particulate, which is a practical argument for inspecting the solution before drawing.

Gauge numbers run backwards. Higher number, thinner needle.

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HV
answeredh_villanueva70k481 Sept 2024
22

The part that matters: this is a straightforward answer that people over-complicate because the numbering is counter-intuitive.

A 30G or 31G needle through a butyl stopper leaves a track that reseals, which is why fine-gauge repeated entry is tolerable and coarse-gauge repeated entry is not.

Needle gauge to outer diameter correspondence is standardised and published; the inverse relationship between gauge number and diameter is the reason for the counter-intuitive labelling.

Length affects comfort more than gauge does at these volumes.

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M4
answeredmz_4113101k35821 Aug 2024
19

Specifically, for a 4 mm pen-style needle the gauge options are narrow and the choice is nearly made for you.

Drawing a viscous or foamy solution through a fine needle takes long enough that people rush the plunger, which causes more foaming. Using a wider drawing needle is the fix.

Higher gauge is not automatically better; it is thinner, which has costs as well as benefits.

Angle the bevel and insert gently to avoid coring the stopper.

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DV
answereddead_volume56k4825 Oct 2024

Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.