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Is a 31G needle the right choice for drawing orforglipron at 5 mg/mL?

Asked 20 Dec 2024Modified 17 months agoViewed 22k times
6

What I have: a 31G needle · orforglipron · 5 mg/mL.

I want to know what the trade-off actually is rather than which option is fashionable.

I would rather have a defensible reason than a marginal improvement.

What does each option buy me, and what does it cost me?

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askedpriya_menon13k3520 Dec 2024

5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
86

Accepted answer

At 5 mg/mL a 1 mg dose is 0.2 mL — 20 units on a U-100 barrel — and no needle gauge changes that number. Gauge changes three other things: how long the draw takes, how much stays behind in the hub, and how much rubber you core out of the stopper. On the 31G scale a larger number is a finer needle, so a 31G needle is fine enough that a viscous solution draws slowly and a hurried draw pulls bubbles. If you are drawing 20 units at a time, the dead space matters more than the bore: a fixed-needle barrel loses microlitres, a luer hub loses tens of them, and at 5 mg/mL each microlitre is 5 µg.

Answer first: use the largest bore you tolerate for drawing and the smallest for injecting, because the two operations have opposite requirements.

Flow through a needle scales with the fourth power of the internal radius under the Hagen–Poiseuille relation. Halving the radius reduces flow sixteen-fold at the same pressure, which is why a 31G needle draws so much more slowly than a 21G.

In practice, stopper coring — punching a disc of rubber into the solution — is a large-bore phenomenon. An 18G or 21G needle inserted straight and fast is the classic way to do it; inserting at a slight angle with the bevel up reduces the risk.

The Hagen–Poiseuille relation gives flow proportional to the fourth power of radius, which is the quantitative basis for every gauge recommendation here.

Flow goes as the fourth power of radius. That is why the difference feels so large.

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LS
answered · acceptedlow_dead_space37k3710 Feb 2025
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35

Start with the fact that gauge numbers run backwards — a higher number is a thinner needle — which is the source of half the confusion in this tag.

A 30G or 31G needle through a butyl stopper leaves a track that reseals, which is why fine-gauge repeated entry is tolerable and coarse-gauge repeated entry is not.

For injecting, 29G to 31G is the usual range and the difference in perceived discomfort between them is small. Needle length matters more than gauge for comfort at these volumes.

Coring risk as a function of needle gauge and insertion technique is documented in pharmacy compounding guidance.

The caveat is that no gauge choice makes a non-sterile preparation safe, and research-use compounds are not approved for human use.

Length affects comfort more than gauge does at these volumes.

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DL
answeredDr_Otto_Lindqvist72k5830 Jan 2025
27

The short version: 21G to 23G to draw, 29G to 31G to inject, and never the same needle for both.

Fixed-needle insulin syringes are supplied in 29G to 31G and cannot be swapped for drawing, which is the trade-off against their much lower dead space.

Stated carefully, very fine needles are more prone to bending and to blocking with any particulate, which is a practical argument for inspecting the solution before drawing.

Needle gauge to outer diameter correspondence is standardised and published; the inverse relationship between gauge number and diameter is the reason for the counter-intuitive labelling.

Higher gauge is not automatically better; it is thinner, which has costs as well as benefits.

Big to draw, small to inject, never the same one twice.

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DV
answereddead_volume56k484 Mar 2025
6Thank you — this is the answer I was looking for. – greta_holzmann 2 months ago
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22

The honest answer is that injection gauge is a comfort decision and drawing gauge is a stopper-coring decision.

Typical outer diameters: 21G is about 0.82 mm, 23G about 0.64 mm, 25G about 0.51 mm, 29G about 0.34 mm and 31G about 0.26 mm. The gauge number and the diameter move in opposite directions.

If a solution will not draw through a 25G needle, the problem is the solution rather than the needle.

Angle the bevel and insert gently to avoid coring the stopper.

edited 1 Mar 2025 by laminar_bench — added the method parameters

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LB
answeredlaminar_bench69k5721 Feb 2025
6Two of us worked through this independently and arrived here, so at least it reproduces. – Dr_Colm_Fitzhenry 5 months ago
5Small correction: the units in the third paragraph should be micrograms, not milligrams. – t_oyelaran 3 months ago
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19

The relevant physics is the fourth-power dependence of flow on radius, which makes small gauge differences enormous in practice.

Drawing a viscous or foamy solution through a fine needle takes long enough that people rush the plunger, which causes more foaming. Using a wider drawing needle is the fix.

Butyl rubber closures are specified for resealing after piercing up to a stated gauge, which is the basis for the fine-gauge repeated-entry practice.

Nothing here is medical advice.

Gauge numbers run backwards. Higher number, thinner needle.

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SC
answeredstopper_core28k12727 Dec 2024
5The dead-space number surprised me until I did the multiplication across twenty draws. – tare_weight 5 months ago
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Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.