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How do I convert the TRIUMPH-3 hazard ratio into an absolute risk reduction?

Asked 5 Mar 2025Modified 13 months agoViewed 23k times
33

My laboratory results are from the same laboratory each time, drawn fasting, which I gather matters.

I want the working, not the result — I need to be able to redo it with different numbers.

I care about the precision as well as the value — I want to know how many figures are real.

Is my approach right even if my number is wrong?

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LS
askedlow_dead_space37k375 Mar 2025
2Add whether the comparator was placebo or an active agent. – nominal_ten 5 months ago
Voting to keep this open — it is more specific than it first looks. – deamidation_watch 3 months ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
107

Accepted answer

A hazard ratio from TRIUMPH-3 cannot be converted into an absolute risk reduction without the control-arm event rate, and that rate is the number people forget to carry across. The arithmetic: absolute reduction equals the control event rate minus the treated event rate, and the treated rate is approximately the control rate multiplied by the ratio. A hazard ratio of 0.80 against a 10 per cent control rate is a 2-point absolute reduction and a number needed to treat of 50; the same 0.80 against a 2 per cent control rate is 0.4 points and a number needed to treat of 250. Identical ratio, six-fold difference in what it is worth. Take the control-arm rate and the follow-up duration from the TRIUMPH-3 paper, not from the abstract, and do the subtraction yourself.

Answering this properly needs the absolute risk reduction rather than the relative one, because the relative figure is stable across risk strata and the absolute figure is not.

Benefit appears to track exposure duration rather than switching on at a threshold, which is what you would expect from a mechanism working partly through weight, blood pressure and glycaemia rather than instead of them.

Specifically, systolic blood pressure falls by about three to six millimetres of mercury at the doses studied, most of it early and much of it attributable to weight loss rather than to a direct vascular effect.

Where a cardiovascular claim is made for an agent with no completed outcome trial, the honest statement is that the class evidence is suggestive and the agent-specific evidence does not yet exist.

The outcome trials are the evidence; the mechanism is still an argument. Cite the first, be careful with the second.

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DV
answered · acceptedDr_Bram_Verhoeven84k2481 Jul 2025
4Is the open-label extension included in that figure, or just the randomised phase? – ines_delacruz 4 months ago
3This matches what I was told by a clinician, for whatever that is worth. – plate_count_9k 3 months ago
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41

Answer first: the cardiovascular signal in this class is a reduction in major adverse cardiovascular events in populations already at elevated risk, not a general cardioprotective claim for everyone.

A twenty per cent relative reduction on a baseline three-year event rate of eight per cent is an absolute reduction of about one and a half points, which is a number-needed-to-treat somewhere in the region of sixty to seventy. Both framings are true and they read very differently.

The heart-failure question is separate again, and the evidence there is largely in the preserved-ejection-fraction population with obesity, where the trials measured symptoms and function rather than mortality.

SELECT is the trial to read for primary-prevention-adjacent populations without diabetes; SUSTAIN-6 and LEADER are the diabetes-population outcome trials for semaglutide and liraglutide respectively.

Ask for the absolute risk reduction and the number needed to treat. If a source will not give you both, it is selling something.

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UM
answeredu100_marks52k3714 Mar 2025
Adding a vote because this deserves more of them. – nkem_obiora 3 months ago
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30

What the outcome trials established is that the class does not increase cardiovascular risk and, in the higher-risk populations studied, reduces it. Those are two separate findings from the same programme.

Baseline risk decides how much the relative reduction is worth. The same twenty per cent applied to a one per cent annual risk and a five per cent annual risk produce very different absolute numbers.

Mechanically, cardiovascular composites in this programme are typically cardiovascular death, non-fatal myocardial infarction and non-fatal stroke. When one component drives the result, that is worth knowing, because the components differ in how much they matter.

The cardiovascular safety requirement for new glycaemic agents is why these trials exist at all: regulators required an outcome programme, and the benefit finding was in that sense an unexpected dividend.

These are trial populations on licensed product. Research-grade material of unverified content is not the thing that was studied.

Read SELECT for the without-diabetes population and the earlier outcome trials for the with-diabetes one. They are not the same result.

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DF
answeredDr_Colm_Fitzhenry69k2479 Jun 2025
24

The short version: real effect, modest absolute size, largest in those with the highest baseline risk — which is the ordinary shape of a cardiovascular result.

Resting heart rate rises by roughly two to four beats per minute across the class. The mechanism is not fully settled, the magnitude is consistent, and it has not translated into an adverse outcome signal in the trials that looked.

Heart-rate elevation in this class is documented consistently enough across agents that it should be treated as a class effect rather than as a finding about any one molecule.

Heart rate up a few beats, blood pressure down a few millimetres, events down about a fifth in high-risk populations. That is the honest summary.

edited 10 Jul 2025 by Dr_Bram_Verhoeven — removed a claim I could not source

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DV
answeredDr_Bram_Verhoeven84k24820 Jun 2025
23

More usefully, the mechanism question and the outcome question are separate. The outcome data stand whether or not the mechanistic story is settled, and the mechanistic story is not settled.

SELECT randomised people with established cardiovascular disease and overweight or obesity but without diabetes to semaglutide 2.4 mg, and reported roughly a twenty per cent relative reduction in the primary composite. The absolute difference over about three years was on the order of one and a half percentage points.

SELECT reported a hazard ratio of 0.80 (95% CI 0.72–0.90) for the primary composite major adverse cardiovascular event endpoint with semaglutide 2.4 mg in overweight or obese adults with established cardiovascular disease and without diabetes[1].

Nothing here is medical advice. If cardiovascular risk is the actual question, it is a conversation for a clinician with your numbers in front of them.

Population, baseline risk, endpoint definition. In that order, then the effect size.

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OF
answeredorla_ferriter89k14818 May 2025
3Minor: the trial name is hyphenated in the original publication. – meniscus_film 6 months ago
2Worth flagging that this changed with the 2025 publication, so older answers are out of date. – RP_C18 5 months ago
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Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.