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Does fibrillation dominate for survodutide held at minus 20 °C?

Asked 28 Nov 2024Modified 16 months agoViewed 27k times
41

The specifics, since they change the answer: fibrillation · survodutide · minus 20 °C.

I understand the observation; what I do not understand is the mechanism behind it.

I have read the two review articles that come up first and both assert this without a citation to a primary source.

Can someone derive this rather than assert it?

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ET
askedellis_thorne17k1728 Nov 2024
8Worth saying whether the vial has been opened, because that starts a different clock. – Dr_Otto_Lindqvist 7 months ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
44

Accepted answer

At minus 20 °C the question is which route is fastest, not whether fibrillation happens — and the routes do not share an activation energy, so their ranking changes with temperature. minus 20 °C is 25 kelvin below a refrigerator, and below the glass transition of a lyophilised cake the ten-degree rule of thumb stops applying at all — solid-state chemistry is not slow liquid chemistry, it is a different regime, and the failure modes that survive it are mechanical rather than chemical. That multiplier is an average over every route at once, which is exactly why it cannot tell you which one wins. Ordered beta-sheet assembly, effectively irreversible, and its endpoint is opalescence you can see rather than a peak you can integrate. So the way to answer it for your vial is to pick the method that sees fibrillation specifically and run it against a control held cold, rather than to infer a mechanism from a purity number that averages all of them.

The relevant point is that a mass shift of plus one dalton is deamidation and plus sixteen is oxidation, so degradation is often visible in a mass spectrum if anyone looks.

Deamidation converts asparagine or glutamine to the corresponding acid via a succinimide intermediate, adding one dalton. It is base-catalysed, accelerates above neutral pH and is the dominant aqueous pathway for many peptides.

Degradation pathway by condition

PathwayDominant whenDetected by
DeamidationSolution, neutral to alkaline pHRP-HPLC, +1 Da on MS
OxidationLight, trace metals, peroxidesRP-HPLC, +16 Da on MS
HydrolysisSolution, extremes of pHRP-HPLC, fragment masses
AggregationAgitation, interfaces, high concentrationSEC, visual haze; often invisible on RP-HPLC
Freeze-concentration damageFreeze-thaw of buffered solutionSEC, loss of recovered content

The relevant detail is that light exposure matters for tryptophan-containing sequences and for anything with a chromophore. Amber vials and a closed box are free mitigations.

Deamidation via the succinimide intermediate is well characterised, with sequence-dependent rates highest for asparagine-glycine motifs.

At dilute concentrations, suspect adsorption before you suspect chemistry.

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HN
answered · acceptedhalvard_ness69k4729 Nov 2024
3Thank you — this is the answer I was looking for. – tandem_gradient 9 months ago
2I have kept vials both ways for a year and this matches what I saw. – halvard_ness 7 months ago
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35

To be exact about it, aggregation is a physical process and is the one most often caused by handling rather than by time.

Oxidation targets methionine, cysteine and tryptophan, adding sixteen daltons per oxygen. It is catalysed by trace metals and promoted by dissolved oxygen and by light.

A mass spectrum resolves most of this: minus eighteen is dehydration or succinimide, plus one is deamidation, plus sixteen is oxidation, and an unchanged mass with a shifted retention time is an isomer.

The caveat is that none of these pathways can be seen by looking at a vial, and a clear solution can be substantially degraded.

Sequence decides which pathways are even available. Check the residues.

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M4
answeredmz_4113101k35810 Dec 2024
3The doubling-per-ten-degrees rule is the part I did not know and now use constantly. – olu_babatunde 6 months ago
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14

Answer first: the degradation pathways worth knowing are hydrolysis, deamidation, oxidation, aggregation and adsorption, and each has a different trigger and a different mitigation.

Adsorption onto glass and plastic is significant at low concentrations — micrograms per millilitre — and negligible at milligrams per millilitre. It is the usual explanation for an apparent loss in a dilute preparation.

Freeze-thaw cycling drives aggregation through concentration at the ice interface and pH shifts as buffer components crystallise out at different rates. Each cycle costs something.

Adsorption losses at low concentrations are quantified in formulation studies and are the reason carrier proteins are used in dilute preparations.

Cold, dry, dark, still. Those four words cover most of the mitigation.

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P9
answeredplate_count_9k78k24823 Feb 2025
14

Start with the sequence, because which pathways are available depends on which residues are present.

Hydrolysis cleaves the backbone, most readily at aspartate-proline and aspartate-glycine sequences, and is acid-catalysed. In a dry solid it barely proceeds at all.

Nothing here is medical advice, and research-use compounds are not approved for human use.

Swirl, never shake. Aggregation is a handling problem more than a time problem.

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KL
answeredkirsi_lahtinen25k277 Mar 2025
-2

The short version: water enables most of it, oxygen enables oxidation, surfaces enable adsorption, and agitation enables aggregation.

Aggregation is physical: peptides unfold at air-liquid interfaces and associate. Shaking maximises that interface, which is why swirling and shaking produce visibly different outcomes on the same vial.

Aggregation at air-liquid interfaces is established from surface-tension and particle-count studies and is the basis for anti-agitation handling guidance.

A mass spectrum names the pathway. Plus one, plus sixteen, minus eighteen.

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MO
answeredmarta_okonkwo190k25818 Mar 2025
6Small correction: it is the number of cycles rather than the freezer temperature that does the damage. – coldpack_88 7 days ago
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Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.