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Does fibrillation dominate for survodutide held at 4 °C?

Asked 5 Jun 2024Modified 22 months agoViewed 41k times
41

The specifics, since they change the answer: fibrillation · survodutide · 4 °C.

I understand the observation; what I do not understand is the mechanism behind it.

I have read the two review articles that come up first and both assert this without a citation to a primary source.

Can someone derive this rather than assert it?

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MI
askedmateo_iglesias12k165 Jun 2024

5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
46

Accepted answer

At 4 °C the question is which route is fastest, not whether fibrillation happens — and the routes do not share an activation energy, so their ranking changes with temperature. 4 °C is the condition the rule of thumb is anchored to, so it is the baseline rather than a multiplier: everything else in this thread is quoted relative to it. That multiplier is an average over every route at once, which is exactly why it cannot tell you which one wins. Ordered beta-sheet assembly, effectively irreversible, and its endpoint is opalescence you can see rather than a peak you can integrate. So the way to answer it for your vial is to pick the method that sees fibrillation specifically and run it against a control held cold, rather than to infer a mechanism from a purity number that averages all of them.

Answer first: the degradation pathways worth knowing are hydrolysis, deamidation, oxidation, aggregation and adsorption, and each has a different trigger and a different mitigation.

Light exposure matters for tryptophan-containing sequences and for anything with a chromophore. Amber vials and a closed box are free mitigations.

In practice, oxidation targets methionine, cysteine and tryptophan, adding sixteen daltons per oxygen. It is catalysed by trace metals and promoted by dissolved oxygen and by light.

Aggregation at air-liquid interfaces is established from surface-tension and particle-count studies and is the basis for anti-agitation handling guidance.

At dilute concentrations, suspect adsorption before you suspect chemistry.

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answered · acceptedsinead_gaffney28k3716 Aug 2024
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38

The honest answer is that most reported "degradation" is adsorption and dilution error rather than chemistry.

Hydrolysis cleaves the backbone, most readily at aspartate-proline and aspartate-glycine sequences, and is acid-catalysed. In a dry solid it barely proceeds at all.

Mechanically, adsorption onto glass and plastic is significant at low concentrations — micrograms per millilitre — and negligible at milligrams per millilitre. It is the usual explanation for an apparent loss in a dilute preparation.

A mass spectrum names the pathway. Plus one, plus sixteen, minus eighteen.

edited 24 Sept 2024 by h_pergande — added the placebo-arm figures

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HP
answeredh_pergande71k15827 Aug 2024
6Is there a reason to prefer minus eighty here, or is minus twenty genuinely enough? – h_villanueva 7 months ago
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17

The relevant point is that a mass shift of plus one dalton is deamidation and plus sixteen is oxidation, so degradation is often visible in a mass spectrum if anyone looks.

Freeze-thaw cycling drives aggregation through concentration at the ice interface and pH shifts as buffer components crystallise out at different rates. Each cycle costs something.

A mass spectrum resolves most of this: minus eighteen is dehydration or succinimide, plus one is deamidation, plus sixteen is oxidation, and an unchanged mass with a shifted retention time is an isomer.

Adsorption losses at low concentrations are quantified in formulation studies and are the reason carrier proteins are used in dilute preparations.

The caveat is that none of these pathways can be seen by looking at a vial, and a clear solution can be substantially degraded.

Sequence decides which pathways are even available. Check the residues.

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EH
answeredeighty_six_hours20k275 Aug 2024
15

Start with the sequence, because which pathways are available depends on which residues are present.

Deamidation converts asparagine or glutamine to the corresponding acid via a succinimide intermediate, adding one dalton. It is base-catalysed, accelerates above neutral pH and is the dominant aqueous pathway for many peptides.

Nothing here is medical advice, and research-use compounds are not approved for human use.

Swirl, never shake. Aggregation is a handling problem more than a time problem.

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TQ
answeredtriple_agonist_q57k3814 Jul 2024
2Does the same reasoning apply to material already in solution, or is that a different curve? – halvard_ness 2 months ago
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15

The short version: water enables most of it, oxygen enables oxidation, surfaces enable adsorption, and agitation enables aggregation.

Aggregation is physical: peptides unfold at air-liquid interfaces and associate. Shaking maximises that interface, which is why swirling and shaking produce visibly different outcomes on the same vial.

Sequence determines which pathways apply, so general statements are general.

Cold, dry, dark, still. Those four words cover most of the mitigation.

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DC
answeredDr_Idris_Coulibaly33k13725 Jul 2024

Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.