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Is vomiting on survodutide dose-dependent or dose-rate dependent?

Asked 12 May 2024Modified 23 months agoViewed 56k times
30

What I have: vomiting · survodutide.

I understand the observation; what I do not understand is the mechanism behind it.

I have read the two review articles that come up first and both assert this without a citation to a primary source.

What is actually going on here, physically?

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DW
askeddana_wexler11k1612 May 2024
2Same experience, and it settled in about ten days at the same step. – petra_hovland 7 months ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
54

Accepted answer

The short version: usually escalation-related, usually self-limiting, and dangerous mainly through dehydration.

Oral rehydration solutions work by glucose-coupled sodium co-transport, which continues to function when secretion is deranged. That is why the glucose-to-sodium ratio matters and a high-sugar sports drink is not equivalent.

More usefully, repeated vomiting is the mechanism behind most reported acute kidney injury in this class. The renal event is a volume event, not a direct toxicity.

Vomiting rates in the trial programmes are reported separately from nausea and are consistently lower and more dose-dependent.

The caveat is that persistent vomiting is a clinical situation and this is not the place to manage one.

Small frequent sips of an oral rehydration solution, not large volumes of water.

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answered · acceptedDr_Nadia_Farsi104k24714 Jun 2024
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45

To be exact about it, anti-emetics are a clinical decision and not a self-management step.

Trial incidence for vomiting runs at roughly a third to a half of the nausea rate depending on agent and dose, and it is more concentrated in the escalation phase than nausea is.

Warning signs that convert this from a nuisance to a clinical problem: inability to keep fluids down for more than a few hours, reduced urine output, dizziness on standing, confusion, or severe abdominal pain.

Oral rehydration solution composition is standardised by the World Health Organization and rests on glucose-coupled sodium transport.

Anti-emetics interact with other medication and are a prescriber decision.

The renal risk here is volume, not toxicity. That is the mechanism to watch.

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DV
answeredDr_Bram_Verhoeven84k24825 Jun 2024
21

The relevant risk chain is vomiting to volume depletion to reduced renal perfusion to a rising creatinine, which is how most acute renal events in this class occur.

An episode of vomiting several days after a dose, with no escalation and no other explanation, is not the typical pattern and deserves attention rather than tolerance.

On the detail: dental enamel erosion from repeated vomiting is a real if unglamorous consequence; rinsing with water rather than brushing immediately is the standard advice.

Nothing here is medical advice.

Do not escalate the dose while this is happening.

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TU
answeredtenth_of_a_unit57k373 Jun 2024
2Same pattern here, and it resolved on the timeline described. – marcus_thorbjorn 3 months ago
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18

In practice, rehydration with an oral rehydration solution is more effective than water and is not the same as a sports drink.

Fluid lost in vomit carries sodium at roughly 60 millimoles per litre and potassium at rather less, so replacing it with plain water alone dilutes plasma sodium rather than restoring balance.

Volume depletion as the mechanism for acute creatinine rise is basic renal physiology and explains the pattern of renal reports in this class.

If fluids will not stay down for several hours, that is the threshold. Get help.

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DO
answeredDr_Lena_Ostrowska38k2723 May 2024
2I would add a sentence about when to stop managing it and start seeing someone. – seven_day_half 15 days ago
3The distinction between escalation-related and steady-state is the useful part. – ilaria_bertone 2 months ago
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18

Answer first: vomiting is less common than nausea, is more strongly dose-related, and matters chiefly because of what it does to fluid and electrolyte balance.

A practical home formulation is about six level teaspoons of sugar and half a level teaspoon of salt in one litre of water, taken in small frequent sips rather than in volumes that provoke another episode.

Electrolyte composition of gastric and intestinal secretions is published and is the basis for replacement calculations.

Rinse rather than brush after an episode. Enamel is not replaceable.

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DF
answeredDr_Nadia_Farsi104k2479 Sept 2024
2Does the tolerance develop at the same rate for the daily agents? – Dr_Jonas_Halvorsen 9 months ago
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Your answer

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