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Should I use a different needle to draw than to inject?

Asked 15 Jul 2024Modified 22 months agoViewed 27k times
17

This is the third vial from the same lot, so I can compare against two known-good ones.

I have read the obvious sources and they disagree with each other, so I would rather ask people who have actually done this.

I have a working setup and a notebook, and I am prepared to be told that my setup is inadequate if that is the answer.

So: what is the actual procedure, and which steps matter as opposed to being ritual?

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NK
askednils_karlberg9.4k1515 Jul 2024
7Same question, and I got two answers that differ by a factor of ten, so I am watching this. – e_dziedzic 2 months ago
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5 Answers

Sorted by votes
85

Answer first: use the largest bore you tolerate for drawing and the smallest for injecting, because the two operations have opposite requirements.

For injecting, 29G to 31G is the usual range and the difference in perceived discomfort between them is small. Needle length matters more than gauge for comfort at these volumes.

Dead space by syringe type

ConfigurationDead volumeLoss at 5 mg/mLOver 20 draws
Fixed-needle insulin syringe3–5 µL15–25 µg0.3–0.5 mg
Low-dead-space, detachable<2 µL<10 µg<0.2 mg
Standard luer-lock + 30G35–60 µL175–300 µg3.5–6 mg
Luer-lock + 21G drawing needle70–100 µL350–500 µg7–10 mg

Drawing a viscous or foamy solution through a fine needle takes long enough that people rush the plunger, which causes more foaming. Using a wider drawing needle is the fix.

Big to draw, small to inject, never the same one twice.

edited 12 Oct 2024 by laminar_bench — reworded for clarity after a comment

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LB
answeredlaminar_bench69k5718 Sept 2024
7Same experience here, different supplier. – pk_curve 9 months ago
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58

The honest answer is that injection gauge is a comfort decision and drawing gauge is a stopper-coring decision.

Flow through a needle scales with the fourth power of the internal radius under the Hagen–Poiseuille relation. Halving the radius reduces flow sixteen-fold at the same pressure, which is why a 31G needle draws so much more slowly than a 21G.

Worth being precise here: fixed-needle insulin syringes are supplied in 29G to 31G and cannot be swapped for drawing, which is the trade-off against their much lower dead space.

Angle the bevel and insert gently to avoid coring the stopper.

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LB
answeredlaminar_bench69k577 Sept 2024
Adding a vote because this deserves more of them. – nine_point_nine 5 months ago
Thank you — the worked example is what makes this usable. – e_dziedzic 6 months ago
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41

Concretely, for a 4 mm pen-style needle the gauge options are narrow and the choice is nearly made for you.

Stopper coring — punching a disc of rubber into the solution — is a large-bore phenomenon. An 18G or 21G needle inserted straight and fast is the classic way to do it; inserting at a slight angle with the bevel up reduces the risk.

Very fine needles are more prone to bending and to blocking with any particulate, which is a practical argument for inspecting the solution before drawing.

The Hagen–Poiseuille relation gives flow proportional to the fourth power of radius, which is the quantitative basis for every gauge recommendation here.

The caveat is that no gauge choice makes a non-sterile preparation safe, and research-use compounds are not approved for human use.

Length affects comfort more than gauge does at these volumes.

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answeredoona_kekkonen13k1727 Aug 2024
Two of us worked through this independently and arrived here, so at least it reproduces. – tess_amankwah 4 months ago
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34

More usefully, coring the stopper with a large-bore needle is the risk at the drawing end, and it is real.

Typical outer diameters: 21G is about 0.82 mm, 23G about 0.64 mm, 25G about 0.51 mm, 29G about 0.34 mm and 31G about 0.26 mm. The gauge number and the diameter move in opposite directions.

Coring risk as a function of needle gauge and insertion technique is documented in pharmacy compounding guidance.

Gauge numbers run backwards. Higher number, thinner needle.

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TM
answeredtwo_two_micron9.3k1615 Aug 2024
31

Answering this needs to know the viscosity of what is being drawn, since a viscous solution through a fine needle is slow enough to encourage bad technique.

A 30G or 31G needle through a butyl stopper leaves a track that reseals, which is why fine-gauge repeated entry is tolerable and coarse-gauge repeated entry is not.

Butyl rubber closures are specified for resealing after piercing up to a stated gauge, which is the basis for the fine-gauge repeated-entry practice.

Flow goes as the fourth power of radius. That is why the difference feels so large.

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RS
answeredrota_site36k274 Aug 2024

Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.