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How many times can I pierce a stopper with a 27G needle before coring?

Asked 1 Dec 2024Modified 16 months agoViewed 27k times
25

For context, I am working with a 10 mg presentation and a 2 mL fill.

This is a procedural question rather than a theoretical one, and I would like the procedure rather than the theory.

What I have done so far is read the label documentation where it exists and the two pharmacopoeial monographs that are publicly available, which cover the licensed presentation and say nothing about a research one.

What does a defensible version of this look like in practice?

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ET
askedellis_thorne17k171 Dec 2024
5This is the answer I was looking for three months ago. – amara_nwachukwu 8 months ago
4The arithmetic checks out. I ran the same numbers and got the same result. – b_delacroix 6 months ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
8

Accepted answer

The relevant detail is that the single most useful thing to do is write the arithmetic on the vial label, because you will reconstruct it from memory at an inconvenient moment if you do not.

Dead space quantified: a fixed-needle insulin syringe holds roughly 3 to 5 µL in the hub and needle after the plunger bottoms out. A luer-lock syringe with a detachable needle holds 35 to 100 µL depending on the hub design. At 5 mg/mL that is 15 to 25 µg lost per draw on the insulin syringe and 175 to 500 µg on the luer-lock — which over ten draws is the difference between losing a rounding error and losing half a milligram.

The underlying point is that do not use the same needle to pierce the stopper and to administer. The tip is blunted by the stopper, and the hub now contains a dose you are about to lose to dead space anyway.

Published data on syringe dead space quantifies low-dead-space designs as retaining under 2 µL against 35 µL or more for conventional detachable-needle syringes.

The limitation is that technique reduces risk, it does not remove it, and nothing you can do outside a controlled environment makes a non-sterile preparation sterile.

Do the arithmetic twice, ideally with someone else doing it independently.

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DS
answered · acceptedDr_Ravi_Selvarajah42k13813 Feb 2025
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33

This is arithmetic, so let us do the arithmetic rather than argue about it.

Number of stopper piercings matters less than the gauge doing the piercing. A 30G or 31G needle through a butyl stopper leaves a track that reseals; a 21G or 18G drawing needle punches a core and can drop it into the solution.

The concentration you actually work with is label claim times content fraction divided by actual diluent volume, which is usually not the same as the nominal concentration because content is usually not 100 per cent and you rarely measure the diluent volume to 0.1 mL precision.

Write the arithmetic on the vial label. It costs nothing and removes the step where you reconstruct it from memory.

edited 19 Mar 2025 by Dr_Colm_Fitzhenry — added the citation requested in comments

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DF
answeredDr_Colm_Fitzhenry85k24819 Mar 2025
8I would gently push back on the second point — the evidence there is thinner than stated. – kwn_analytical 3 months ago
Adding for future readers: the certificate should carry the lot number, not just a batch code. – ruaidhri_o_shea 4 months ago
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6

Two people working through the same arithmetic independently should get the same answer, and if they do not, someone has made a unit error.

Air bubbles at these volumes are a measurement problem rather than a safety one. A 2 mm bubble in a 0.3 mL syringe is roughly 4 µL, which at 10 units drawn is a four per cent error.

Room temperature before drawing is worth the ten minutes. Cold solution is more viscous, draws slower, and condensation on a cold barrel makes it harder to read the meniscus.

The caveat is that this assumes the vial contains what the label says, and if the content assay has not been done, the arithmetic is precise about an unknown quantity.

If in doubt, use more diluent and accept the shorter usable window.

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DW
answereddana_wexler15k272 Feb 2025
5

Write the units at every step, because units errors are the failure mode that catches everyone eventually.

Breaking it down further: if a 10 mg vial has 96.5 per cent content, you have 9.65 mg of peptide. Divide that by 2.00 mL and your concentration is 4.825 mg/mL, not 5.00 mg/mL, which is a 3.5 per cent systematic error in every dose calculation.

Do the arithmetic twice, ideally with someone else doing it independently.

edited 4 Mar 2025 by assay_blank — added the method parameters

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AB
answeredassay_blank39k3825 Feb 2025
5This is the first explanation of that which has actually made sense to me. – n_takahashi 6 months ago
6Note that the label instructions differ between agents on precisely this point. – tandem_gradient 8 months ago
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3

Rounding to the nearest whole syringe unit is usually the right error to make, but understanding which direction it is and why matters.

On filtration: a 0.22 µm syringe filter will remove particulates and organisms, and it will also adsorb a fraction of your peptide onto the membrane — with a low-binding PVDF or PES membrane the loss is typically a few per cent.

The Arrhenius relationship for drawing kinetics means that cold solution takes noticeably longer to draw than room-temperature solution.

I would flag the obvious failure mode: people get the concentration right, get the volume right, and then read the syringe against the wrong scale.

Write the arithmetic on the vial label. It costs nothing and removes the step where you reconstruct it from memory.

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SL
answeredsian_llewellyn85k2488 Mar 2025
5Minor: the trial name is hyphenated in the original publication. – ruaidhri_o_shea 7 months ago
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Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.