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Why do two papers on SELECT report different headline figures?

Asked 28 Jun 2024Modified 21 months agoViewed 25k times
5

My laboratory results are from the same laboratory each time, drawn fasting, which I gather matters.

The empirical answer seems settled. The explanation does not.

If the honest answer is that nobody knows, I would rather hear that than a plausible story.

Is the standard explanation correct, and if so, what is the evidence for it?

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FC
askedforty_two_c66k5828 Jun 2024
4Is that the primary endpoint or a secondary one? They get quoted interchangeably. – Dr_Aoife_Brennan 6 months ago
3Do you have the population it was measured in? The figure moves a lot between them. – tobias_reint 5 months ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
5

Accepted answer

A trial establishes what happened to a defined group under a defined protocol. Extending it beyond that group is inference, and inference is allowed as long as it is labelled.

Duration decides what can be seen. A 68-week trial can measure weight and glycaemia; it cannot measure anything whose event rate is one per cent per year without enrolling tens of thousands.

A composite endpoint is only as informative as its least serious component. Where a cardiovascular composite combines death, infarction and stroke, ask which component moved, because they are not interchangeable outcomes.

Where a result is quoted from a conference abstract rather than a peer-reviewed publication, the numbers routinely move between the two. It is worth checking which one you are reading.

The short version: check the endpoint, check the comparator, check who was excluded, then look at the number.

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DK
answered · acceptedDr_Tomas_Kral53k388 Jul 2024
Worth flagging that this changed with the 2025 publication, so older answers are out of date. – esther_vandeVelde 6 months ago
8Adding a vote because this deserves more of them. – Dr_Ilse_Vandenberg 4 months ago
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103

Start with what the trial was powered for. Everything else in the publication is secondary, exploratory, or a subgroup, and those three words mean three different things.

Intention-to-treat and per-protocol analyses answer different questions. ITT asks what happens if you offer the treatment; per-protocol asks what happens if it is taken as directed. The gap between the two is a measure of how tolerable the protocol was.

Open-label extensions are not the same evidence as the randomised phase. Once everyone knows what they are taking, the reported outcomes acquire a bias that no analysis fully removes.

I am not a clinician and this is not medical advice; it is a reading of a published protocol.

If a claim cannot be traced to a named trial with a named endpoint, treat it as a claim rather than as evidence.

edited 24 Oct 2024 by tabular_nums — expanded the table to cover the lower concentration

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TN
answeredtabular_nums71k4814 Oct 2024
3Which population was that figure from? It moves a lot between the trials. – u100_marks 6 months ago
4This matches what I was told by a clinician, for whatever that is worth. – zainab_mustafa 8 months ago
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67

Before comparing two trials, check whether they share an endpoint definition. Frequently they do not, and the numbers then are not comparable in any sense.

Trial populations are selected. Exclusion criteria in this class routinely remove people with significant renal impairment, prior pancreatitis and unstable psychiatric illness, which is exactly the population the results are then quoted for.

Non-inferiority and superiority designs are not interchangeable. A non-inferiority result says the new agent is not meaningfully worse against a pre-specified margin — it does not say it is as good, and it certainly does not say it is better.

Registry entries at ClinicalTrials.gov carry the pre-specified primary endpoint with a timestamp, which is the cheapest available check on whether an endpoint was changed after the data were seen.

Quote the interval alongside the estimate and half the disagreements on this site would not start.

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LS
answeredlow_dead_space37k3725 Oct 2024
3Minor: the trial name is hyphenated in the original publication. – imani_dube 5 months ago
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42

The short version: the effect is real, the magnitude depends on the population, and the population is usually the part that gets dropped when a result is quoted second-hand.

Placebo arms in this class are not nothing. Lifestyle-intervention placebo arms in the major obesity trials commonly lose two to three per cent of body weight, so an active-arm figure quoted without its comparator overstates the drug effect by roughly that much.

Meta-analyses in this area are dominated by whichever trial contributed the most participants, so read the forest plot rather than the summary estimate.

The caveat is that trial evidence is about licensed product administered under supervision. None of it transfers automatically to research-grade material of unverified content.

When two sources disagree, the answer is almost always in the methods section of the one you have not read.

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DA
answeredDr_Rosalind_Achebe69k14719 Jul 2024
2

This is answerable from the published record, but only if you take the placebo arm seriously rather than reading the active arm alone.

Confidence intervals matter more than point estimates when two trials disagree. Two studies reporting fifteen and twenty per cent whose intervals overlap heavily have not disagreed about anything.

The cardiovascular outcome programme in this class runs to several large randomised trials — LEADER for liraglutide, SUSTAIN-6 and SELECT for semaglutide, REWIND for dulaglutide — and they are the reason the class is discussed as more than a weight intervention.

Read the protocol and the statistical analysis plan if the result matters to you. Both are usually published alongside.

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DV
answereddead_volume56k4830 Aug 2024
7Same experience here, different supplier. – tare_weight 8 months ago
6Is the open-label extension included in that figure, or just the randomised phase? – tyndall_haze 7 months ago
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Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.