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What does PIONEER-1 tell me about nausea at the 14 mg dose?

Asked 4 May 2024Modified 23 months agoViewed 27k times
30

The particulars: PIONEER-1 · nausea · 14 mg.

I have the document in front of me and I can read the numbers. What I cannot do is interpret them.

I am reasonably comfortable with statistics and completely uncomfortable with chromatography, or vice versa.

What is the correct interpretation, and what is the common misreading?

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LC
askedlabel_claim30k384 May 2024

5 Answers

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98

Only what the 14 mg arm reported, and the denominator is that arm rather than the trial. Adverse-event tables are published per arm, so the 14 mg incidence of nausea has its own numerator and its own denominator, and pooling it with the other arms produces a figure that describes nobody. Two further deductions before you use it. Subtract the placebo arm — nausea occurs in people who received nothing, and the difference is the part attributable to the drug. And check whether PIONEER-1 counted events or counted participants: one participant with six episodes is one row in a participant count and six in an event count, and the two get quoted interchangeably. Nothing here is medical advice.

Answer first: read the primary endpoint, the comparator and the population before you read the effect size. Almost every argument on this site about a trial is really an argument about one of those three.

Confidence intervals matter more than point estimates when two trials disagree. Two studies reporting fifteen and twenty per cent whose intervals overlap heavily have not disagreed about anything.

Open-label extensions are not the same evidence as the randomised phase. Once everyone knows what they are taking, the reported outcomes acquire a bias that no analysis fully removes.

The cardiovascular outcome programme in this class runs to several large randomised trials — LEADER for liraglutide, SUSTAIN-6 and SELECT for semaglutide, REWIND for dulaglutide — and they are the reason the class is discussed as more than a weight intervention.

Read the protocol and the statistical analysis plan if the result matters to you. Both are usually published alongside.

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EV
answeredesther_vandeVelde52k2716 Jun 2024
7The number needed to treat is the framing that finally made this concrete for me. – per_haugen 32 days ago
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66

The honest answer here is that the published evidence supports part of the claim and is silent on the rest, and it is worth being precise about which part is which.

Trial populations are selected. Exclusion criteria in this class routinely remove people with significant renal impairment, prior pancreatitis and unstable psychiatric illness, which is exactly the population the results are then quoted for.

Non-inferiority and superiority designs are not interchangeable. A non-inferiority result says the new agent is not meaningfully worse against a pre-specified margin — it does not say it is as good, and it certainly does not say it is better.

Registry entries at ClinicalTrials.gov carry the pre-specified primary endpoint with a timestamp, which is the cheapest available check on whether an endpoint was changed after the data were seen.

When two sources disagree, the answer is almost always in the methods section of the one you have not read.

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DV
answeredDr_Bram_Verhoeven84k2485 Jun 2024
I would gently push back — that was a secondary endpoint, not the primary one. – laminar_bench 8 months ago
8Thank you for separating the surrogate from the outcome. That distinction gets lost constantly. – g_paskevicius 6 months ago
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48

Start with what the trial was powered for. Everything else in the publication is secondary, exploratory, or a subgroup, and those three words mean three different things.

Intention-to-treat and per-protocol analyses answer different questions. ITT asks what happens if you offer the treatment; per-protocol asks what happens if it is taken as directed. The gap between the two is a measure of how tolerable the protocol was.

More usefully, placebo arms in this class are not nothing. Lifestyle-intervention placebo arms in the major obesity trials commonly lose two to three per cent of body weight, so an active-arm figure quoted without its comparator overstates the drug effect by roughly that much.

Meta-analyses in this area are dominated by whichever trial contributed the most participants, so read the forest plot rather than the summary estimate.

Quote the interval alongside the estimate and half the disagreements on this site would not start.

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DV
answeredDr_Bram_Verhoeven84k24825 May 2024
6The exclusion criteria are the most informative page in the supplement and nobody reads them. – Dr_Ilse_Vandenberg 9 months ago
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39

The trial answers a narrower question than the headline suggests, and the narrowing is where the useful information is.

Duration decides what can be seen. A 68-week trial can measure weight and glycaemia; it cannot measure anything whose event rate is one per cent per year without enrolling tens of thousands.

Be careful about generalising from a trial population to yourself. The exclusion criteria are usually the most informative page in the supplement.

The short version: check the endpoint, check the comparator, check who was excluded, then look at the number.

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DF
answeredDr_Nadia_Farsi104k24714 May 2024
36

Before comparing two trials, check whether they share an endpoint definition. Frequently they do not, and the numbers then are not comparable in any sense.

A composite endpoint is only as informative as its least serious component. Where a cardiovascular composite combines death, infarction and stroke, ask which component moved, because they are not interchangeable outcomes.

I am not a clinician and this is not medical advice; it is a reading of a published protocol.

If a claim cannot be traced to a named trial with a named endpoint, treat it as a claim rather than as evidence.

edited 7 Sept 2024 by Dr_Colm_Fitzhenry — corrected a unit error in the worked example

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DF
answeredDr_Colm_Fitzhenry69k24731 Aug 2024

Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.