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What did the placebo arm of SOUL report for early satiety?

Asked 12 Aug 2024Modified 20 months agoViewed 26k times
24

Setup, so nobody has to ask: SOUL · early satiety.

I want to understand what this actually establishes, as opposed to what it is being used to imply.

My concern is that I am being invited to draw a conclusion the data does not support.

What is the correct interpretation, and what is the common misreading?

clinical-trials
clinical-trials

Reading the primary literature properly: estimands, intention-to-treat versus per-protocol, confidence intervals, absolute versus relative…

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gi-side-effects
gi-side-effects

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MI
askedmicron2222k3812 Aug 2024
3Same question, and the two papers I found disagree, which is why I am watching. – greta_holzmann 7 months ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
61

Accepted answer

Answer first: read the primary endpoint, the comparator and the population before you read the effect size. Almost every argument on this site about a trial is really an argument about one of those three.

Intention-to-treat and per-protocol analyses answer different questions. ITT asks what happens if you offer the treatment; per-protocol asks what happens if it is taken as directed. The gap between the two is a measure of how tolerable the protocol was.

Stated carefully, open-label extensions are not the same evidence as the randomised phase. Once everyone knows what they are taking, the reported outcomes acquire a bias that no analysis fully removes.

The cardiovascular outcome programme in this class runs to several large randomised trials — LEADER for liraglutide, SUSTAIN-6 and SELECT for semaglutide, REWIND for dulaglutide — and they are the reason the class is discussed as more than a weight intervention.

The caveat is that trial evidence is about licensed product administered under supervision. None of it transfers automatically to research-grade material of unverified content.

Read the protocol and the statistical analysis plan if the result matters to you. Both are usually published alongside.

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DH
answered · acceptedDr_Jonas_Halvorsen28k374 Sept 2024
The placebo-arm figure is the part everyone omits. – sian_llewellyn 33 days ago
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72

This is answerable from the published record, but only if you take the placebo arm seriously rather than reading the active arm alone.

Confidence intervals matter more than point estimates when two trials disagree. Two studies reporting fifteen and twenty per cent whose intervals overlap heavily have not disagreed about anything.

Duration decides what can be seen. A 68-week trial can measure weight and glycaemia; it cannot measure anything whose event rate is one per cent per year without enrolling tens of thousands.

Registry entries at ClinicalTrials.gov carry the pre-specified primary endpoint with a timestamp, which is the cheapest available check on whether an endpoint was changed after the data were seen.

If a claim cannot be traced to a named trial with a named endpoint, treat it as a claim rather than as evidence.

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RS
answeredruaidhri_o_shea25k2726 Sept 2024
Thank you for separating the surrogate from the outcome. That distinction gets lost constantly. – Dr_Aoife_Brennan 4 months ago
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49

A trial establishes what happened to a defined group under a defined protocol. Extending it beyond that group is inference, and inference is allowed as long as it is labelled.

A composite endpoint is only as informative as its least serious component. Where a cardiovascular composite combines death, infarction and stroke, ask which component moved, because they are not interchangeable outcomes.

In practice, placebo arms in this class are not nothing. Lifestyle-intervention placebo arms in the major obesity trials commonly lose two to three per cent of body weight, so an active-arm figure quoted without its comparator overstates the drug effect by roughly that much.

Meta-analyses in this area are dominated by whichever trial contributed the most participants, so read the forest plot rather than the summary estimate.

I am not a clinician and this is not medical advice; it is a reading of a published protocol.

Quote the interval alongside the estimate and half the disagreements on this site would not start.

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KA
answeredkwn_analytical147k35815 Sept 2024
2The exclusion criteria are the most informative page in the supplement and nobody reads them. – rune_thoresen 6 months ago
3Minor: the trial name is hyphenated in the original publication. – Dr_Jonas_Halvorsen 7 months ago
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22

Look at the discontinuation rate alongside the efficacy figure. A large effect in the two thirds who stayed is a different result from a large effect in everyone.

Trial populations are selected. Exclusion criteria in this class routinely remove people with significant renal impairment, prior pancreatitis and unstable psychiatric illness, which is exactly the population the results are then quoted for.

Be careful about generalising from a trial population to yourself. The exclusion criteria are usually the most informative page in the supplement.

When two sources disagree, the answer is almost always in the methods section of the one you have not read.

edited 25 Nov 2024 by Dr_Colm_Fitzhenry — corrected a unit error in the worked example

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DF
answeredDr_Colm_Fitzhenry69k24710 Nov 2024
4Which population was that figure from? It moves a lot between the trials. – net_peptide 44 days ago
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Start with what the trial was powered for. Everything else in the publication is secondary, exploratory, or a subgroup, and those three words mean three different things.

Non-inferiority and superiority designs are not interchangeable. A non-inferiority result says the new agent is not meaningfully worse against a pre-specified margin — it does not say it is as good, and it certainly does not say it is better.

Where a result is quoted from a conference abstract rather than a peer-reviewed publication, the numbers routinely move between the two. It is worth checking which one you are reading.

The short version: check the endpoint, check the comparator, check who was excluded, then look at the number.

edited 12 Sept 2024 by Dr_Hanne_Solberg — added the citation requested in comments

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DS
answeredDr_Hanne_Solberg36k2724 Aug 2024

Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.