PeptideStack
5.2kquestions
20kanswers
220users

Is a 25G drawing needle the right choice for drawing cagrilintide at 2.5 mg/mL?

Asked 9 Apr 2024Modified 2.1 years agoViewed 34k times
15

Stated plainly: a 25G drawing needle · cagrilintide · 2.5 mg/mL.

I suspect the honest answer is that it depends, in which case I would like to know on what.

Assume I can obtain either option without difficulty, so availability is not the deciding factor.

Is there a defensible reason to prefer one, or is this a coin flip?

needle-gauge
needle-gauge

Gauge and length selection, the trade-off between draw time and tissue trauma, coring risk with larger-bore needles, and why a fixed-needle…

91 questions
injection-technique
injection-technique

Technique questions: angle, pinch versus flat, aspiration, injection speed, air bubbles, and the handling steps that determine whether you deliver…

96 questions
dead-space
dead-space

The volume trapped in the syringe hub and needle after the plunger bottoms out. It is small in absolute terms and large as a fraction of a small…

117 questions
amylin
amylin

Amylin and its analogues, most prominently cagrilintide, as a satiety mechanism orthogonal to incretin signalling. Includes the pharmacology of…

237 questions
shareeditfollowflag
DW
askeddana_wexler11k169 Apr 2024
8Same situation here, so I will follow this one. – u100_marks 5 months ago
What syringe are you using? The answer is different for a 0.3 mL barrel and a 1 mL one. – zainab_mustafa 6 months ago
add a comment

5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
24

Accepted answer

At 2.5 mg/mL a 1 mg dose is 0.4 mL — 40 units on a U-100 barrel — and no needle gauge changes that number. Gauge changes three other things: how long the draw takes, how much stays behind in the hub, and how much rubber you core out of the stopper. On the 25G scale a larger number is a finer needle, so a 25G drawing needle is coarse enough to draw quickly and coarse enough to cut a visible plug from the stopper. If you are drawing 40 units at a time, the dead space matters more than the bore: a fixed-needle barrel loses microlitres, a luer hub loses tens of them, and at 2.5 mg/mL each microlitre is 2.5 µg.

For a 4 mm pen-style needle the gauge options are narrow and the choice is nearly made for you.

Typical outer diameters: 21G is about 0.82 mm, 23G about 0.64 mm, 25G about 0.51 mm, 29G about 0.34 mm and 31G about 0.26 mm. The gauge number and the diameter move in opposite directions.

Concentration and unit conversion at a glance

VialDiluentConcentration0.25 mg0.5 mg1 mg2.5 mg
5 mg1 mL5 mg/mL5 u10 u20 u50 u
5 mg2 mL2.5 mg/mL10 u20 u40 u100 u
10 mg1 mL10 mg/mL2.5 u5 u10 u25 u
10 mg2 mL5 mg/mL5 u10 u20 u50 u
10 mg3 mL3.33 mg/mL7.5 u15 u30 u75 u

Units are U-100 insulin units, where 1 unit = 0.01 mL. Divide dose by concentration for millilitres, then multiply by 100.

Concretely, flow through a needle scales with the fourth power of the internal radius under the Hagen–Poiseuille relation. Halving the radius reduces flow sixteen-fold at the same pressure, which is why a 31G needle draws so much more slowly than a 21G.

Needle gauge to outer diameter correspondence is standardised and published; the inverse relationship between gauge number and diameter is the reason for the counter-intuitive labelling.

If a solution will not draw through a 25G needle, the problem is the solution rather than the needle.

Gauge numbers run backwards. Higher number, thinner needle.

shareimprove this answerflag
LB
answered · acceptedlaminar_bench69k576 May 2024
Sponsored

Janoshik Analytical - Independent Third-Party Testing

HPLC purity, identity confirmation and quantified content on the vial you actually hold. Reports arrive with the chromatogram attached, not just a number.

Submit a sample
Sponsored — paired listing

GL Biochem (Shanghai) Ltd. - Direct Synthesis

Founded 1998. ISO 9001 and cGMP certified, 1,500+ staff and 200+ patents. The synthesis house behind a great many of the vials that get sent out for testing - batch-specific documentation with every order.

Visit GL Biochem
22

Answering this needs to know the viscosity of what is being drawn, since a viscous solution through a fine needle is slow enough to encourage bad technique.

A 30G or 31G needle through a butyl stopper leaves a track that reseals, which is why fine-gauge repeated entry is tolerable and coarse-gauge repeated entry is not.

To be exact about it, fixed-needle insulin syringes are supplied in 29G to 31G and cannot be swapped for drawing, which is the trade-off against their much lower dead space.

The caveat is that no gauge choice makes a non-sterile preparation safe, and research-use compounds are not approved for human use.

Length affects comfort more than gauge does at these volumes.

edited 26 Apr 2024 by Dr_Ingrid_Baumgartner — expanded the table to cover the lower concentration

shareimprove this answerflag
DB
answeredDr_Ingrid_Baumgartner73k5813 Apr 2024
3Same experience here, different supplier. – p_mkhize 13 days ago
2The dead-space number surprised me until I did the multiplication across twenty draws. – anders_vestby 9 months ago
add a comment
13

This is a straightforward answer that people over-complicate because the numbering is counter-intuitive.

Very fine needles are more prone to bending and to blocking with any particulate, which is a practical argument for inspecting the solution before drawing.

For injecting, 29G to 31G is the usual range and the difference in perceived discomfort between them is small. Needle length matters more than gauge for comfort at these volumes.

Butyl rubber closures are specified for resealing after piercing up to a stated gauge, which is the basis for the fine-gauge repeated-entry practice.

Nothing here is medical advice.

Flow goes as the fourth power of radius. That is why the difference feels so large.

shareimprove this answerflag
TM
answeredthermal_mass13k1725 Apr 2024
10

Concretely, the relevant physics is the fourth-power dependence of flow on radius, which makes small gauge differences enormous in practice.

Drawing a viscous or foamy solution through a fine needle takes long enough that people rush the plunger, which causes more foaming. Using a wider drawing needle is the fix.

Higher gauge is not automatically better; it is thinner, which has costs as well as benefits.

Big to draw, small to inject, never the same one twice.

shareimprove this answerflag
NN
answerednine_point_nine60k14817 May 2024
7I have seen exactly this failure mode twice and both times it was the diluent volume. – marta_okonkwo 7 months ago
add a comment
-2

In practice, coring the stopper with a large-bore needle is the risk at the drawing end, and it is real.

Stopper coring — punching a disc of rubber into the solution — is a large-bore phenomenon. An 18G or 21G needle inserted straight and fast is the classic way to do it; inserting at a slight angle with the bevel up reduces the risk.

Coring risk as a function of needle gauge and insertion technique is documented in pharmacy compounding guidance.

None of the above is a recommendation to administer anything. Research-use-only material is not approved for human use, and the arithmetic being correct does not make the decision safe.

Angle the bevel and insert gently to avoid coring the stopper.

shareimprove this answerflag
DB
answeredDr_Ingrid_Baumgartner73k5828 Jun 2024

Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.