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How much of the energy-expenditure claim for glucagon agonism is human data?

Asked 26 Jun 2024Modified 22 months agoViewed 17k times
2

This matters because it predicts what a related molecule should do.

The claim is plausible, which is exactly why I want to check it.

I am able to read a paper if someone points me at one.

Is there data behind this, or is it received wisdom?

glucagon-receptor
glucagon-receptor

Glucagon receptor agonism as a deliberate component of dual and tri-agonists: what it adds in energy expenditure and hepatic fat mobilisation, and…

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clinical-trials
clinical-trials

Reading the primary literature properly: estimands, intention-to-treat versus per-protocol, confidence intervals, absolute versus relative…

745 questions
retatrutide
retatrutide

An investigational GLP-1, GIP and glucagon receptor tri-agonist, studied in the TRIUMPH programme. Not approved anywhere. Use this tag for…

251 questions
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CO
askedcoldbox941k13826 Jun 2024

5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
61

Accepted answer

Glucagon receptor agonism increases resting energy expenditure measurably, which distinguishes it from every appetite-mediated mechanism in the class.

Reported increases in resting energy expenditure with glucagon receptor agonism are on the order of several per cent, which over months is a meaningful contribution to energy balance and is a genuinely different mechanism from eating less.

What each test answers

TestAnswersDoes NOT answer
RP-HPLC, area %What fraction of detected material is the targetHow much target is present
Quantified contentMilligrams of peptide per vialWhat the impurities are
ESI-MS identityWhether the molecular weight matchesPurity, or isomeric substitution
Peptide mappingSequence, localised to a fragmentQuantity
Karl FischerWater content of the solidSolvent content
LAL endotoxinPyrogen load in EU/mgSterility
Sterility testGrowth in defined media over 14 daysEndotoxin, or bioburden count

Specifically, hepatic fat reduction with glucagon-containing agonists in phase 2 has been substantial, which is why the MASH programmes in this class exist at all.

Survodutide phase 2 work in MASH reported histological improvement, which is the strongest evidence for the hepatic mechanism of the glucagon limb.

The ratio between the limbs is the whole design problem.

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GA
answered · acceptedgrainne_ahearn50k382 Oct 2024
2Worth flagging that this is phase 2 and the answer treats it as such, which is refreshing. – Dr_Marek_Zielinski 9 months ago
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53

Answer first: adding glucagon receptor agonism raises energy expenditure and hepatic fat oxidation, and the cost is a glycaemic penalty that the GLP-1 limb has to cover.

Retatrutide is a triple agonist at the GIP, GLP-1 and glucagon receptors; survodutide is a dual glucagon and GLP-1 agonist. The compositions are different and so are the trial programmes.

Amino-acid handling changes too: glucagon drives hepatic ureagenesis, so the liver–alpha-cell axis is part of the picture and shows up as changes in circulating amino acids.

The liver–alpha-cell axis linking glucagon signalling to hepatic amino-acid metabolism is well described and predicts the amino-acid changes seen with these agents.

Energy expenditure up, hepatic fat down, glycaemia under pressure. That is the glucagon limb in one line.

edited 26 Sept 2024 by Dr_Ingrid_Baumgartner — added the method parameters

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DB
answeredDr_Ingrid_Baumgartner73k5821 Sept 2024
5Adding a vote because this deserves more of them. – Dr_Signe_Baldursdottir 10 months ago
6Which comparator dose was that head-to-head run against? It matters a great deal. – mz_4113 1 months ago
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25

Start with the apparent contradiction: glucagon raises blood glucose, so putting a glucagon agonist into a glucose-lowering drug looks perverse until you look at the energy-expenditure side.

Glucagon acts primarily on hepatocytes to promote glycogenolysis, gluconeogenesis and fatty-acid oxidation. The last of those is the therapeutic target; the first two are the reason a counterbalancing incretin limb is required.

Worth being precise here: because the mechanism is partly independent of appetite, the weight loss is less strongly coupled to reported food intake, which makes the trial data harder to interpret rather than easier.

Phase 2 results are not phase 3 results, and this class has a history of tolerability constraints appearing at scale.

Expect a slightly larger heart-rate effect than with a pure GLP-1 agonist.

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MI
answeredmateo_iglesias12k1630 Aug 2024
20

Concretely, this is the mechanistic reason the newer multi-agonists report weight reductions beyond what GLP-1 agonism alone achieves.

Heart-rate elevation appears somewhat larger with glucagon-containing agonists than with pure GLP-1 agonists, which is consistent with a catecholaminergic or direct cardiac contribution.

Research-use material is not approved for human use, and a multi-agonist with a glycaemic penalty is the worst possible candidate for uncontrolled use.

Cite the hepatic-fat endpoints for this mechanism; they are where it shows most clearly.

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LT
answeredlane_transit60k4710 Sept 2024
8Thank you for naming the trial programme. Half the confusion on this site is citation drift. – ines_brandt 3 months ago
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-3

More usefully, the relevant design parameter is the ratio between the limbs. Too much glucagon and glycaemia deteriorates; too little and the metabolic-rate benefit disappears.

The glycaemic penalty from the glucagon limb is dose-dependent and is the practical constraint on how far the limb can be pushed in a diabetic population.

Retatrutide phase 2 results reported substantial weight reduction over 48 weeks, and the ongoing phase 3 programme carries the TRIUMPH name.

Nothing here is medical advice.

The mechanism is not appetite-mediated, which makes it interesting and makes it harder to monitor.

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TQ
answeredtriple_agonist_q57k388 Jul 2024
Minor: that substitution is at position 8, not position 9, in the numbering used in the paper. – lyoph_cake 2 months ago
8The albumin-binding explanation for the half-life is the part that finally made it click. – claudia_ferrante 24 days ago
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Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.